Okay, so I spent some time on a dating site for a while. This particular site had a “journal” feature… a feature that I used a number of times. There was one that I was inspired to write that I think raised an interesting question (or two). It also had a number of interesting comments (40 in total). I decided that I would like to post the journal entry, as well as a few of the comments here. I have omitted screen names for the sake of privacy. Here goes…
Okay, so I was talking to someone today about some [moron] that was posting in his journal about how he cheats on his wife, but is unhappy with his “mistress”, or something idiotic like that. I, of course, expressed my disappointment at his being allowed to continue to live and breath, etc…
The conversation went to me discussing things like honor, integrity, and treating women with respect. Part of her reply came back, “Women often are skeptical of any man with old fashioned values … Sad but true.” When I asked what she meant by “old fashioned values”, she said being a true gentleman, and that many women have a hard time believing that any man is really a true gentleman.
Now, I am not trying to come from a position of, “I am this great man with all this cool stuff to offer”. Read my profile or get to know me and come to your own conclusions there. I simply offer up a couple of questions.
1 – Are the concepts or honor, integrity, and treating a woman with respect “old fashioned”?
2 – Do women believe that there are not many men left that hold those things in high regard?
Now, as to the second question, I understand that there is a possibility that there are actually not that many of those men out there, or at least not ones that are single or whatever. I have never tried dating a man, so I wouldn’t know, but the question intrigues me, so I thought I would ask. Any insights?
“There’s always someone, something special out there. But I can honestly tell you that I have not dated, nor did I marry a man that had those qualities — Not one single man. It’s not to say it doesn’t exist, just not in my world so far. “Old fashioned” is actually a sweet thought though … Someone that WANTS to hold your hand, open doors, kiss you on the fore-head. I think until it happens to you, till you meet that kind of man, you don’t believe in it.”
“Honor, integrity and respect are always sexy, when they are part of your nature, not an accessory dusted off to impress someone. Too many people are lonely, so willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Just because he/she says it in their profile or on the phone doesn’t necessarily make it so. Time time time. People will always, but always show you who they are. Pay attention. =)”
me – “@comment #1 – not one?? Seriously? See, now, I find that surprising.
@comment #2 – Yea, I get that men will play at that for a while, but what is your take on men that are really like that? Men that have that somehow ingrained in who they are. That is really the kind of man we are talking about, isn’t it?”
“No, those concepts aren’t old-fashioned, just rare. I’m not sure it’s just men (although I don’t date women); I suspect it pervades our culture as a whole now. Interesting that you ask this. I had a recent experience with a man that has raised the very same questions for me. Are integrity and respect dead? Does anyone think about honor and character anymore? I make lots of mistakes, but I always think about the effect my behavior has on others; and I feel bad when I’ve not behaved kindly. Yet, I’m discovering that so many people just don’t seem to think about the feelings of others and the impact of their behavior. I’ve seen it many times over in the dating arena, so much so that I’ve all but given up.”
“It is not ‘old-fashioned’ to have honor and integrity and treat others with respect, it is right. There is nothing old nor new about being right. There is right and wrong. As human beings quite often all of mankind is in the wrong until some sort of enlightenment happens that gets people to realize what is right. These three right things, you mentioned, are not in question. Maybe not active in practice with many, but they never stopped being right. What we can all argue is what they mean, and I will with anyone, because how else are we to define what is right?
If women doubt it and don’t recognize it when they see it, then that is their problem and not yours. Yours is your honor, integrity and respect for others. Knowing your definitions. We are all responsible for our own and what everyone else does should not make a difference in regard to what we do. When we stop listening and considering others points then we may stay in the wrong the rest of our lives. We have been witness to this in society.
For instance, my father did not take care of his own father at the latest stages of his life because it would be too big of an inconvenience and too much trouble. He wasn’t there for me as a child. He has dementia and in his decline expressed his deep desire to be with one of his sons. I took him in. Why? Because I think it is the right thing to do. I care about doing what is right, no matter what he did or he chose, those are his problems.
So, what that woman is really saying and so are many others (all the time) is ‘many women are skeptical of any man, sad but true’. That is what it really means. Many are. Many men are skeptical of any woman, sad but true. It is not all.
Ever since I started being very open with anyone regarding who I am and what I am about, I have heard the doubts you speak of from women. I have literally been told variations of ‘you can’t be real’, ‘men are not like you’, or ‘are you an alien’. Huh? No men ever say this stuff to me. Holy [excrement], what is up with the doubt? I don’t doubt women this way. When I meet them I believe they are real.
Now think about this, if they meet you and you have honor, integrity, and respect for others, some may project an image of you being the perfect guy that they have been looking for. Now when they discover your flaws (your dirty underwear), they are going to see those as major transgressions to what they thought you were. When the [jerk] is a good man and treats her right, those times seem significantly better by comparison. See what I mean? Eh, I think that can happen to anyone, not just women.
Like guys that date bitches, when she is good, omg it is soooo good. Why? Because it sucks the rest of the [act or procreation] time. Going from [excrement] to something good makes it seem GREAT. Like one time, my dad told me of being in the military. He was doing drills and wasn’t allowed to eat for several days, when he finally ate it was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. He said it was the best damn meal of his life. So, anyway, if she treats you right all the time, then OMG that is boring.
I want to realize the dangers and work to make a different reality. I think there is a balance, at least for me.”
It seems that the traits I mentioned in the OP are rare; at least with many single men. Perhaps that is why they are single? It does seem that the concepts of honor and personal integrity were held in much higher regard by a higher percentage of the population in earlier times. I think that is a sad commentary, in and of itself. I also think that it ties into the state of apathy that so many of us are in regarding many concepts that we used to hold in high regard. Sounds like a good topic for another post.
This is Steve and that was Just My $0.02.